name: Mr. Greenjeans

comments:

Monkeyfist,

My answer to your question 'What nutritional benefit can you obtain from meat, that cannot be obtained from a vegan (i.e., plant-based) diet' is absolutely none. I don't believe nor did I state that it is impossible to maintain a well balanced vegan diet, in fact many cultures have done so for thousands of years. Meat is a simply more complete package, as far as mineral, protein, vitamin and amino acid content, so that is easier for a meat eater to have a good balance without much thought, however as I said, a well balanced vegan diet is as good or better. I think, perhaps, you missed my point which was that there is no longer enough high quality agricultural land available on the planet to grow the high quality foods required for a vegan diet if all 7 billion people on earth became vegans. I know of no other way to convert high fiber crops such as hay or pasture (which are grown on marginal land) into high quality protein other than through the stomach of a ruminant.
The Silverback gorilla, I understand, must eat vast quantities of vegetation each day in order to survive, with occasional worms, grubs and ants. The worms and grubs are probably consumed because of a lack in the gorilla's diet of an essential nutrient, possibly an amino acid or micro-nutrient such as iodine, selenium etc. Once again, there is not enough land available on earth for humans to begin to consume a similar diet.
By the way, I agree with your comments to Megan...

name: monkeyfist529

comments:

@ Megan:

Are you serious? Do you really believe in a god? I almost don't know where to begin. Well, if you do believe in a god and you are Christian, I suggest you read the Bible more carefully. In the opening pages of Genesis...there wasn't any death at all. So, how could humans be hunters from the beginning? And agriculture only began around ~10,000 years ago. And, what does the four food groups have to do with anything? Big surprise that the people who tell us what to eat on that inane food pyramid are the same people who stand to make the most money from us eating milk, eggs, fish and meat. Also, do you just blindly accept everything that you were taught in school? Oh wait...you believe in an invisible magic man in the sky who grants you wishes. Nevermind. The education of most teachers in our schools extends as far as a Masters degree...at best. You are REALLY uninformed.

name: monkeyfist529

comments:

Mr. Greenjeans, two questions:

1) What nutritional benefit can you obtain from meat, that cannot be obtained from a vegan (i.e., plant-based) diet?

2) Silver-Back Gorillas have a much higher protein demand than humans do...and yet they thrive as vegans. Why?

name: monkeyfist529

comments:

Mr. Greenjeans, two questions:

1) What nutritional benefit can you obtain from meat, that cannot be obtained from a vegan (i.e., plant-based) diet?

2) Silver-Back Gorillas have a much higher protein demand than humans do...and yet they thrive as vegans. Why?

name: Megan

comments:

Honestly! People!! There is a reason God put animals on this earth. Ever since the begining of earth people have hunted and farmed to survive. Not to mention if any of you vegans learned anything in health I would hope it was the food groups. Meat just happens to be one of them!! Can you see where I'm going with this?

name: Bryan

comments:

about 2/3rd of the world is water.fish grow in the water, fish is food. you take a piece of plane fish and cook is into a healthy delicious meal. you can also take it and create different meats(that is how imatation crab meat is made).

name: Grubby

comments:

i believe that people should not eat any meat of any kind, nor should they eat anything grown in the ground, i believe that in a perfect world humans should be eating only what they can CREATE (make out of nothing) with their own hands. other than that we should leave the earth to heal itself, by not growing anything in it and not hurt or kill anymore animals. Humans can survive on pure synthetic food

name: Mr. Greenjeans

comments:

Thanks for your comments Draven. If you have indeed been a vegetarian for 15 yrs and are healthy, you are, I hope, getting your required protein from other sources such as soybeans, chick peas, eggs etc. If you are not consuming adequate amounts of protein (preferably with a good amino acid profile), there are serious long term health risks. Also, being a vegetarian does not appear to improve one's spelling. If you are in fact one of the smartest, I think your school should revise it's language arts curriculum!

name: draven

comments:

hey i think there is no need for meat in this world because i am a guy and a vegation. i have been a vegie for 15 years and i am more fit and smarter then 75% of my school. i dont have any growing effects from my reduced levels of protin ethier.

name: China Doll

comments:

I can honestly say I tried to be a vegan and being a 46 year old women I was the most worn out I've ever been in my life.I did the research and ate soy,cheese,nuts and tuns of veggies and fruit.I left no stone unturned, I believe you need meat for many reasons not to mention B vitamins which without it the body doesn't in my opinion heal as fast. Most importantly the protein,iron all these things needed for women with a period so beware and get lots of info before you do this thing that can maybe make you very sick and leave your immune system week.

Sincerely China Doll

name: Vegan Leo

comments:

The author of this article seems to forget that as technology progresses, new and creative ways of dealing with problems emerge.

We have already decided that taking one acre of land and just using it two dimensionally is not efficient for shelter. We have taken to the skies with urban development and converted a measily acre into condos/skyscrapers etc.

Just because we only have a certain percentage of land available does not mean we should use it to compound the inefficiency and mass suffering created by eating other living creatures. There are ways to harness the energy of the sun and create nutrient rich synthetic soils using hydroponics.

Innovative techniques to create urban argriculture and gardens can be successful within a city as well. Its time to think outside the box here and find a solution that can help the world.

I can't believe that we would continually feed into this deadly cycle just to feel that we are on the top of the food chain. I feel that it is important that everyone is given a choice in what they eat and don't force veganism on anyone. The only reason I responded is that the logic in this argument states that humans need beef to survive.

That is just not true.

Keep an open mind.

name: Mr. Greenjeans

comments:

Thanks for the interesting article.

I think it is important to note, before beginning to discuss this article that it was prepared by or for the USDA.

The first point the article makes is that it is surprising that China's food share of exports is 6% whereas the US is at 8%. I don't find this surprising at all because the US tends to export raw commodities such as beef and corn, whereas China tends to export processed or high end foodstuffs such as manufactured food and beverages, seafood and tea, while citizens tend to consume more commodities such as rice or wheat.

China's productivity depends on several factors that as you say, are probably not sustainable. The first is that they are a net importer of fertilizer, and use obscene amounts of fertilizer and herbicide to obtain yields that are below the US in everything but wheat(table B-4). Corn yields are drastically lower. The second is, if the article is correct, there are three Chinese labourers per hectare in China. We cannot afford 1 labourer per 100 hectares in North America. The third reason I see is that according to Figure B-2, the average American consumes close to 900 calories more per day than the average Chinese. A population of 1.3 billion multiplied by 900 calories equals a lot of extra food to sell!

name: Rndpeg

comments:

Using China as a reference for land required to feed a person you will find that they need around 1/4 acre of land per person. And the Chinese are not known for being large consumers of red meat however they do seem to be fond of pork.

A Statistical Overview of China’s Food and Agriculture


From this publication you will find that the population is 1.266 billion , and cultivated land is only 325 million . And they are a net exporter of foods to neighboring countries. That means, with their cultivated land they are feeding more population than their own.

There is certainly other things to consider and I do not want to say that China's agricultural practices are better than North America. Their over use of fertilizers is frightening and may not be the right thing for longterm sustainability.

I would be interested in your opinion on this publication.

name: Mr. Greenjeans

comments:

I've got a solution. How about, yes, reducing meat consumption, but paying a fair price for high quality (local)stuff and stop whining about food prices.

name: Rndpeg

comments:

Meat comes from a store wrapped in plastic and hopefully covered in batter and ready to pop in the microwave. Our meat products are take for granted. Shoppers do not have a clue as to where their meats come from nor do they want to know. Their conscience would prevent many people from continuing to eat meat if they did know. Frankly the conditions of most of these beasts on large scale farms are less than deplorable.

Not enough suitable land for growing beans you say! Well there isn't enough land to grow the grass to allow 1/4 of the cattle that exists to graze. The land must be pumped full of chemical nitrogen to be able to produce the grass and corn for these animals. Don't try to let on that feed lots are the solution. Check out this one: BIG FEED LOT This is actually one of the better ones. It appears they have a pasture in the middle of the pens. You can not tell me that this is good for the environment. If you look at the surrounding land it appears that the production of the feed for these animals requires some serious irrigation.

What should be done is if you want to eat meat you must be required to go hit a cow in the head with a sledge hammer. If you don't have the balls to do that then you have no right to be eating meat.

Another thing people should do is eat 1/5 the amount of meat they eat now, spend 1/2 the amount they do now and buy their meat locally. Then eat it ALL. Roast your chicken, carve your chicken, boil the carcase, pick the bones of meat and make broth.

It gets tiring reading about all these problems and finger pointing when really we should be looking for some freaking solutions.

How about some constructive